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Washington Women’s Heritage Project records, 1900-2000 
University of Washington Libraries Special Collections 
Patricia Louise Butler 
April 25, 1992 
Cassette 1, Side 2 
 
 
Antoinette Johnson  00:01 
How did, how did you guys spend time together as a family? Holidays?  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  00:09 
Which side of the family? 
 
Antoinette Johnson  00:15 
How about when you were in New Jersey or New York?  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  00:17 
In New York, small family was just the family. And I think there might have been an uncle, 
somebody that came by every now and then, but it was just the immediate family. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  00:28 
Did you guys-- How about, give me some examples of maybe Christmases or Thanksgivings 
[inaudible]? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  00:34 
Was just me and them. I mean, with a small family, just wasn't a lot of people over, maybe a 
couple people in the apartment building. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  00:46 
Did that change after you moved here?  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  00:47 
Oh, well I guess I should tell you that when I moved to Seattle with my grandmother for six-- 
This is a six week vacation that I'd been here, until I graduated from high school. So when we 
moved with Lenear and Stanley, we lived at 155 28th Avenue. Now this house must have had 
seven bedrooms, five or seven bedrooms, they had roomers. Now, you know, this is definitely 
new. Like I said, it was a new style of living. It didn't mean they were poor, but they did different 
things with their money, they lived differently. So, you know, here's a girl who's used to living in 
an apartment, or this stoop house, as they call it, you know, with four in one, four families in one 
house, apartments, units. So now I come to an individual family with five to six bedrooms, the 
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roomers live upstairs, and there's a back unit apartment. So that was different. My uncle is a 
musician, so they'd have rehearsal at the house at night. So, you know, that was again, another 
phase that I didn't have. I had music, I played records, I knew about The Mills Brothers, the Ink 
Spots and all of that. But Uncle Stanley actually had traveled around the world playing music, so 
he had his own combo, and was self-employed. And he fed his family, took care of them with 
entertainment, you know. He played tenor saxophone and clarinet and so, so rehearsal-- It was a 
busy household, and Christmas with them would be Christmas for the family and then the 
roomers, whatever was left that didn't go away to see their family. So, you know, it was a big 
house, and people were always coming and going. It was a hubbub of activity, early in the 
morning, because I mean, you know, a musician plays music to two and three o'clock in the 
morning. So if the fellas came in, they were probably quiet, but it didn't stop you from going to 
school or anything like that. Wasn't like it was too noisy, but it was an orderly, ongoing of 
things. And then we stayed there, and then we moved to 144 29th Avenue, which was just 
around the block. Well, you know, I'd never moved. I moved me with my little suitcase, from 
New York to Jersey, back and forth. But I mean, these people were talking about, literally, 
moving beds, you know, and furniture. Well, in New York City, they call a moving van. Well, 
these people didn't call a moving van. What are we gonna do? You know, like you put the stuff 
in the boxes and you wrap the dishes. All of this was strange, real strange. So anyway, we ended 
up all of us that could, you know, it's just around the corner, so we had small boxes that we 
carried. And then I guess they got a friend with a truck to carry the big stuff. This was just so 
unusual. And then it took this lady forever to unpack these boxes. And I couldn't understand that, 
why is her house in this chaos? You know, because she hadn't marked what was in what. And I 
thought, "Oh, my God." So that, you know, that was a culture shock. I mean, people were in the 
boxes, pulling out things, and it must have took three months to get it all straightened out, and 
we only moved around the corner, you know, just around the block.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  01:34 
How old were you around this time?  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  01:52 
I mean, somewhere like the fourth or fifth grade. I mean, this is really different, you know? 
 
Antoinette Johnson  02:43 
And you had to work?  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  02:43 
I didn't mind the work, it was just the difference, you know, it just didn't seem logical, because 
I'm used to the moving van comes. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  02:43 
Order. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  02:43 
Yeah, and, you know, you still wrap dishes and you pack them up. But these people didn't, forgot 
where they put the kitchen dishes, and so you know you had them look around for the dishes in 
which box and Suzie Q-- See, by then she had Alma and Stanetta and myself. So it was only 
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three kids and the dog, Chichi, and Buttons. We had two dogs and three kids. And by when we 
moved to this house, we'd given up the roomers, this house got natural gas, and the roomers 
pretty much were getting ready to be married, go out of town and all bunch of crazy stuff. So 
they did that, and we moved to 140-- And it was just the family. And I think Uncle Stanley was 
going to take a regular job, and I think Grandpa Johnson had just moved out from New York, so 
Grandma Johnson was going to move to wherever he was. So what they did was they moved to 
Kirkland, on those two acres, or whatever they bought. You know, they'd come with the money 
to buy because he was a junk dealer, and that was big money back in, on the East Coast. So that 
was fine. So here we were, just a little family, and I'm still, am I still going to Leschi? Yeah, 
Leschi is still down the hill. Then I guess the next school was Madrona. What did I like about the 
house at 144? I don't know, it was a nicer walk to school. It was okay, but I guess it's the first 
time I ever saw a garter snake, garden snake. That was kind of frightening, some little boy was 
running around hollering, he got a snake, he got a snake. And pay that too much, you know, I ran 
on home, but then I saw them in the bush, I saw a snake in the bush, and that was frightening. 
That was silly enough, look, you know, snakes have big eyes, big, big eyes, like a cow. But that's 
okay, I got on about my way. Then after 144, Stanley went to Montana. No, he didn't take a job, 
he's still playing music. So music wasn't doing too good in Seattle, so he had a combo of two 
guys in the game, and they went to Montana to play. And I don't know why, but we moved 
again. We moved to the north end. That's when I really ran into a bunch of kids that didn't like 
you because you were black, this and I was maybe one or two in a classroom. That's when you 
really ran into a lot of racism, in the north end. So we lived out on North 75th, but the longer you 
stayed in that community, you got to be like the accepted black, if there's such a thing, because, 
you know. And we went to the little church out there. You know where Columbia City is? And 
there's a little church across from Columbia School. Yeah, I was going to Columbia School, and 
then went to that church, had this little Bible thing. And I remember the sign, and the kids raised 
money for the sign to Columbia City, it was a big deal, and that was kind of nice. But then-- 
Somewhere in there I've gotten mixed up. I think maybe we moved to Columbia City, and 
somehow we ended up living with Grandma Johnson. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  08:35 
In Kirkland?  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  08:37 
No, they were living in Rainier Valley, they live in a house on a hill on a cliff. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  08:48 
How'd you guys, how was-- 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  08:49 
So, they moved to that house on the hill on the cliff before they went to Kirkland.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  08:55 
Okay.  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  08:55 
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And it was just a little house, and it had two bedrooms. And while Stanley was away, either in 
Alaska or Helena, Montana, we stayed with them.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  09:09 
What do you remember about his wife, what-- 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  09:15 
She was a very loving person. She's very nice, she still is nice, but she's sickly now. But 
housekeeping wasn't her thing, but love was, she had a lot of compassion, a lot of love, she's a 
good cook, she listened to us a lot, she talked with us a lot. And she interacted with her teacher, it 
wasn't heavy discipline. You know, education was stressed more from Stanley Payne than 
Lenear Payne. But it was very obvious from his viewpoint, he had a lot in common with Mildred. 
You will learn your multip-- your multiplication tables. And you know that little square box 
where you go six times six to get that? Mm-mm, forget that, you memorize this till we get to 12 
times 12. That's what we did. So he just kept me up all night, one night [inaudible] [?enforce it in 
the hand?] with the ruler. He had Mildred's attitude about education. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  10:29 
How about, how about meals and-- Did you guys sit down as a family for dinner? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  10:35 
Oh yeah, both families. That's real traditionally, even with the boarders, everybody sat down. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  10:44 
What were some of the things that you guys would discuss at dinner? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  10:51 
I don't remember, really, but I know that we talked about music and where the next gig was 
going to be. [?From the fellows, of what had happened on?]-- and a gig is a nightclub event. But 
Uncle Stan was still going out to play music, so he probably was eating and running out the door 
and, you know, but we still ate together. And there was a thing about him sleeping in the 
daytime, so he had the reverse, so you had a limited amount of noise you could make. I mean, it 
was a lot of people, but it was, there was order, and there was quiet, but it was a lot of people.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  11:36 
Yeah. How were you guys seated, what was the seating arrangement at the table, was he always 
at the head of the table when he was there? Was he there a lot? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  11:48 
Yeah, you don't play a gig until eight. So, I mean, you know, you gotta, he's home for dinner. 
Breakfast was not the same. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  11:58 
So dinner was the big meal. And who was responsible, basically, for cleaning up afterwards? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  12:05 
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All of us, we had our chores.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  12:07 
Yeah. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  12:08 
And you rotated the dishwashing.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  12:10 
That was new to you, wasn't it? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  12:14 
Well, I mean, when I stayed in Jersey, my grandmother taught me how to do things. And when I 
stayed in New York-- But see, with two adults and one child, I mean, you know how one child is 
like a grown, little, grown person? I mean, you just, you don't have chores in the sense of-- Well, 
I guess I did. I mean, I knew I always folded up, hung up my clothes, and then my bed, always 
made up my bed, and my dolls and my toys were always where they should be.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  12:50 
Your chores are basically taking care of yourself? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  12:52 
Mm-hmm, and making sure my stuff wasn't in the way of others. Yeah, I guess it was my chore, 
I guess that's what it was. And I still like to take care of me, with help. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  13:06 
Do you, okay, tell me about, let's see, recollections of births, since they did have more kids. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  13:13 
That was traumatic to me, and I think it made an impact on how many I was gonna have. I mean, 
she had what Alma, and then Stanetta, and then she started to bud again, and she had Marsha, 
and I looked up, and the one was on the way to hospital again, we had Carolina. And I looked 
up-- She had started practical nursing school by then. So at the end of practical nursing school, 
she delivered Stanley Hamilton Payne Jr. I mean, thank God he came along, because they might 
have kept on trying, Jesus.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  13:55 
They really wanted a boy? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  13:58 
Yeah, they did. But somehow that just left an imprint. I think you should try to curtail how many 
children you have based on what you can do for them.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  14:09 
Did that make it, did the, the-- Those other babies coming along, did that make it harder on you 
guys? 
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Patricia Louise Butler  14:17 
Mm-mm. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  14:17 
Did anything--  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  14:18 
I don't, I, from being a single child and only having two children, I don't think it's a matter of 
harder, unless you're real poor. And if you're kind of in the middle income, you learn to adjust. 
It's kind of like an adjustment. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  14:38 
How were you with the babies? Did you like them? [Inaudible]. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  14:46 
When you say, "like," how do you mean? 
 
Antoinette Johnson  14:48 
You know how little girls play with babies and just, you know, want to--  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  14:51 
Mm, no. No, I don't think I was the cuddly type to want to hold your baby and bounce it around. 
Well, here again, I guess I come from a stricter environment on that, because they tell me my 
mother did not allow you to hold me a lot. And so I guess I just-- Well, you know, the whole 
thing was that you didn't get up in a baby's face, because big people have germs, and the baby 
didn't need to get the germs. And so that wasn't my thing. Plus, they made a lot of noise anyway. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  15:30 
They didn't, they didn't do any type of christening or baptizing of the babies or anything, when 
they came along, did they? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  15:38 
Uh-huh, I know I was baptized-- No, I was blessed. I know Lenear's children have all been 
christened-- Or have they? You know, we'd have to call and ask her. We'll do that before we 
finish. I don't know, I can't remember, but I know distinctly that I was blessed. I remember that 
you had these certain gowns, and that's how you'd get a godmother. I guess they did some of that 
here. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  16:06 
So, so the godmothers were kind of the, the-- 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  16:11 
Godparents, if possible. I mean, it was one of the things people used to do to provide for a child 
when, if the parent died. Because, I guess, now that I'm into understanding about social work, 
that if you didn't have any designated people to take care of you, and something happened to 
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you, no telling where you may end up. So I don't know what they'd do out of that, out of 
necessity now. I don't think people do a lot of grandparenting-- not grandparenting, but 
godmothers and godfathers as parents. Can you get that there? [Phone ringing. Tape stops and 
starts.] Where were we? 
 
Antoinette Johnson  16:53 
We were, let's, how about role of religion?  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  17:00 
I guess it-- 
 
Antoinette Johnson  17:00 
During, during this time. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  17:03 
You know, I guess I've always been with the church.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  17:07 
Was it, was it forced or?  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  17:09 
Oh, I don't think so. I think it was a part of your daily living. You know, the only part of it that 
was forced was those recitals. Now, they had to go, we had to memorize all this stuff. Well, 
[?you'd getting?] in trouble for no reason at all. Didn't like that part, but other than that, I didn't 
mind going to church. And what had turned out to be the part I liked was being in the choir. And 
so I used to sing in the choir, the junior choir. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  17:41 
Did, do you remember any weddings that were centered around the church, or any weddings that 
you went to during that time, any weddings or funerals or? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  17:53 
Well, you know, I hate to tell you this, but when you're little, you like to go to church and go to 
the weddings because you get to eat. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  18:01 
Yeah.  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  18:01 
Stick your fingers in a bunch of stuff. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  18:03 
Were they basically like they were, are today? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  18:07 
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Well, there were more older eyes to focus on what you were doing, to tell you, "Get away from 
there," and, "stop doing that," and those kind of things.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  18:16 
Yeah.  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  18:17 
But it was kind of a time that you didn't have to be under the parents, foot or hand. But I know 
my people in New York went to a big church and whatever wedding we went to there, you didn't 
get to do this pedaling stuff as much as you did on the West Coast.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  18:31 
So you had fun when you got down here.  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  18:35 
Mm-hmm. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  18:38 
Okay, how about, let's go into maybe your teens? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  18:47 
Oh, really? You mean, like--  
 
Antoinette Johnson  18:50 
Leading up to, when you got into about 11 or 12. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  18:58 
Teens?  
 
Antoinette Johnson  18:59 
Yeah, well that's pre-puberty, or puberty.  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  19:02 
Well, I remember about this, this thing they call menstruation for my 11th year. Didn't like that. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  19:11 
Who told you about that though? Was it-- 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  19:13 
Mil-- Oh, no, no, Lenear. She, she, she and I went through that together. She was really a very 
caring kind of person. I mean, and you can't-- And, out of all that I did with her, you can 
appreciate and understand that having to have a house very neat and orderly was not necessary, 
but helpful. Because she brought so many other emotions and support things to the children, to 
the marriage. You know, that was different than other people had to offer.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  19:47 
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Did she also tell you about sex and-- 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  19:52 
Yeah, in her way, into-- Kind of was a little bit on the slow side there, but she had [inaudible] 
explain that to you.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  19:59 
Mm-hmm. So they were, do you think that they were pretty informative back then, as far as-- 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  20:08 
No, I don't. I think they weren't, and I think they were. There was a lot of, you know, "You really 
need to keep your dress down and your legs crossed." And she explained that you had entered 
womanhood. But, you know, they did a lot of watching people, and they had restraints and 
guidelines that said, "That's a no no," and they kept up with their daughters more. You know, if a 
young man comes knocking on the door at 10 o'clock, they'll say, "Well, I'm sorry, young man," 
so he's gonna have to find another strategy. And when you went somewhere, they usually knew 
where you were going, or where you lied and said you were going, but you never knew when 
they was gonna follow it up. And I mean, and things like, if you were gonna go out and do 
something on a Sunday or on the week, you should have been to church. You know, you just 
didn't go out for the sake of going out and hadn't honored God. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  21:15 
So like a lot of male friends, were you allowed to have a lot of male friends at the house? Or, you 
know, just hanging out or? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  21:25 
Hanging out? [They laugh.] Men didn't hang out, they'd come and be respectful. There's no 
hanging out, no, no, no, no, no. But, you know, I guess that we did have a lot of young men, 
because [?Jerome?] used to bring Fred and Burt would come over. And whenever they came, 
Lenear always wanted to know, "Do you want to eat something? Do you want this? Do you want 
that?" And but hanging out, no. They usually will come for a little while or call to make a date, 
but they didn't hang out. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  22:04 
Did, were you guys allowed to go to, like, the drive-in theaters and stuff like that-- 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  22:11 
Yes! 
 
Antoinette Johnson  22:12 
[Inaudible] little hot spots and?  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  22:13 
No. I went, I went to drive-in theater with Jerome. And there was about 10 cars of us, I guess we 
called it a hayride or whatever we did, but it was a whole bunch of us. They let me go to, what 
do you call it? Wenatchee Apple Blossom Festival?  
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Antoinette Johnson  22:33 
Yeah.  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  22:34 
Yeah, did that. Did we take any boys with us? No, we didn't smuggle any boys. Just us five girls 
in her broke down little car. We was hoping we'd get there and get back. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  22:45 
So you guys, did you have a lot of adult supervision during that time? I mean, like, were they 
there with you, physically when you went out? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  22:54 
You know, I remember the [?scenic?] boat cruise, we certainly did have our share of adults.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  22:58 
So you couldn't get away with too much. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  23:04 
Mm-mm, I don't think so. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  23:07 
Was it really kind of unheard-- Peer pressure, what type of types of peer pressure did you have 
back then? What was heard of and unheard of?  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  23:16 
I don't know, I was a loner. I really was. So peer pressure, and I still have a problem with that, is 
that, you know, you got to speak for yourself and do for yourself. This thing of group think, it 
will get you lynched, so you need to do otherwise.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  23:34 
What did you notice about the other girls? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  23:37 
Didn't have time, honey. I was busy. I was busy then, and I'm still busy. I mean, when I went to 
high school, I had a 7:45 class, and I went to work after, after high school. So, I worked for 
Easton Clothiers, and I had a couple customers that [?got pinker?] [inaudible], on the weekend or 
after school. I've worked in a clothing shop, and I've worked in a card shop, I mean, I was busy. I 
was in junior achievement, I was in some kind of purple something for handicapped children, I 
went to that meeting. I mean, it was a lot of people in the house, you needed to find something to 
do to get out the house to find out who you were. And we didn't have a car, so, you know, I was 
on the bus, and you had to get home by a decent time. So I was busy and didn't have time 
[?going around with too many different people?].  
 
Antoinette Johnson  24:32 
Where-- 
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Patricia Louise Butler  24:33 
And I went to the football games. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  24:35 
Yeah. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  24:36 
And basketball games, and I used to babysit. I didn't have time. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  24:41 
When did you start getting into doing your, like filling up your time like, clubs, organizations, 
or? I mean, even in high school, it sounds like you got into the little, you know? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  24:57 
Purple Paw?  
 
Antoinette Johnson  24:58 
Yeah.  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  24:59 
And all the-- well, you know, for your, for your class picture, you gotta have some stuff in there 
behind your name. You don't want to have a blank in your picture. So I had to start early, like as 
soon as I got to Garfield. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  25:11 
What grade were you in then? Was that, is that-- 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  25:13 
10th.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  25:15 
So where, was that when you started, maybe, getting into people, more or less?  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  25:21 
I think, probably, that's when I really got into it.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  25:23 
What do you think influenced that?  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  25:27 
Like I told you, I needed something behind my senior picture. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  25:30 
Some peer pressure?  
 
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Patricia Louise Butler  25:32 
Well, no, I guess it-- No, I think it was the fact that my picture was going to be in there and my 
family was going to have this with just a blank. And I certainly wasn't the smartest student in the 
world.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  25:42 
Maybe that's that middle class attitude. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  25:44 
I think so, have to make a good show, show that you were active in school. I think it was more of 
that than-- I think you, the Daniels raised you to deal with status quo, and to be somewhere in the 
count. You know, just to humdrum along wasn't good enough.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  26:04 
Yeah.  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  26:05 
I mean, what was I gonna tell Mildred? I mean, I needed new dresses, you know. And she'd send 
you 20 dollars to make you a dress, she could understand that letter. [?You're talking about, need 
a whole dress?]. And I remember writing her once for 75 dollars for a typewriter. That was a lot 
of money, she sent it to me though, and I went down and got the typewriter. And I think I typed 
her back a letter that had too many mistakes on it, she sent it back with corrections. [They laugh.] 
[Inaudible], she said, she-- I bet she was, in the last 20 years, she stopped correcting my letters, 
or I stopped writing. But she was good, she was a good aunt. She'd said, if I needed something, 
she'd send me the money. But I was willing to work. I mean, I kept a job. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  26:55 
So in high school, did you, did you go to any of the so-called hang-- the pubs, or, you know, the 
soda shop, or? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  26:59 
You mean, like, the Bulldogs?  
 
Antoinette Johnson  27:06 
Yeah.  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  27:09 
Not a lot. I knew where the Bulldogs was, and I'd probably go over there. But see, third period, I 
worked in the lunchroom, and I always took a split fourth period so I could sit on the lawn for 
good weather, you know. But if you work third period, you got to get free lunch, plus pay. So I 
needed that then last period, I had to work the [inaudible] because I needed [?that money too?].  
 
Antoinette Johnson  27:10 
Who introduced you to all these kinds, these ways of making money while you were in school-- 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  27:10 
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Me. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  27:10 
So you just kind of found that on your own? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  27:28 
Sure did. Well, you know, the one was working the switchboard I learned because I went by the 
counselor’s office when there was a black person in there. I said, "I'm gonna try that out." She 
went from the office with the telephone, and she was over in Miss Deeks office, who was a 
counselor for the girls. And so I got a job telephoning. All you got was an hour out of class, free 
period instead of study hall. So I did that so I could learn how to work a switchboard, because I 
wanted to know how to work a switchboard. And the girl I was watching doing all these things, 
her name was Myrtle Mitchell. And I haven't been able to catch up with her yet, because now she 
has a PhD, and I'm still sitting here with this bachelor's. And she's the [she yawns], excuse me, 
she's the Associate Dean to Seattle Community College. She's Dean of Academic Studies.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  28:41 
Do you think that, that-- Who were some of the people in school that you maybe have gotten 
close to, as far as teachers or students or-- 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  28:47 
Like, you mean in high school?  
 
Antoinette Johnson  28:53 
In school, period. In middle school--  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  28:55 
[Their words overlap] Like, high school?  
 
Antoinette Johnson  28:57 
Yeah, 10th grade.  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  28:59 
10th grade was high school then. Well, I didn't really have nobody I ran with. I was a loner. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  29:07 
So you didn't-- What about close friends, as far as-- 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  29:10 
I've got a girlfriend that was born December 16, same year as I am. And Lucy and I used to be 
friends-- Well, we still are friends, I guess, but Lucy would have a whole bunch of folks riding in 
the car to the game with her, and they be telling, "Well, I'm riding with Lucy." Too many people 
for me to deal with by the time [inaudible], going to the game and catch a right home with one of 
the boys. Then that got to be kind of dangerous, so I learned to walk home with the boys and the 
girls all together, because that's what people used to do from the-- Did you do that? From the 
football stadium, you'd walk all the way through downtown and go home. 
Page 14 of 14 
 
 
Antoinette Johnson  29:50 
Mm-hmm. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  29:52 
Especially if your team won.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  29:53 
What about the boys, what kind of pressures did they, did they put on-- 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  29:58 
The girls?  
 
Antoinette Johnson  29:59 
Uh-huh. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  29:59 
[?A lot of?] pressure.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  29:59 
Were the boys then like boys now?  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  30:01 
The boys were still like boys now, only they had more of a conversation [inaudible]. And girls 
wore boys' jackets, then, girls wore boys' rings then. Somehow, I don't think I got to wear 
nobody's sweater or jacket, because the boy I liked graduated before I got going good.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  30:26 
Yeah? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  30:26 
And that's the man I married.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  30:29 
[?Jerome?]? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  30:30 
Yeah, Jerome Butler used to be a cheer-- yell leader, only black spot down there, but I thought 
that was nice. See here again, that middle class attitude, you're looking for a mark. But he walked 
out with my friend Leela Oaks. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  30:50 
So were you pretty patient about the boyfriends back then? I mean, just were you not interest-- 
[recording ends]. 